written by

Tina M. Barber,

Breed Founder of the Shiloh Shepherd Dog

January 2006

When you mention the nasty double 4 letter word (politics) people seem to get a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach and want to run from it as fast as they can--but they will sit for hours reading someone's perverted lies, without even realizing that they have fallen for that person's "political" ploys to defraud them.


1. Intrigue or maneuvering within a political unit or group in order to gain control or power
2. The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society.
               --- The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.

Think about these definitions! Think about who/what is causing the "conflict" and then consider the reason (true facts) behind the assaults. 


Let's take this case as just one (of the many) examples that the SSDCA, Inc. members are dealing with now!

In 2003 Jeffrey Bragg wrote a nice article about the Shiloh Shepherd Dog for the Wikipedia.  It remained there for 21 months as an honest representation for our breed, although more information could have been added, out of pure respect, no one wanted to "edit" his work until the newly formed ISSDC members discovered it and created a frenzy of objections.

Since the late fall of 2005 this poor article has been edited and re-edited so many times that the Wikipedians had to step in, just to allow both sides to dispute the "FACTS" that they disagreed with.  The war was on, with the dissidents doing everything in their power to convince the moderators that they were the equal of the ISSR! Nothing anyone said would get them to change their minds--they felt that the Wiki was their last chance for gaining some semblance of credibility in order to sell their GSD/mix pups!

I tried to reply to most of their "arguments" but in just the past 6 weeks the discussion has already swelled into 7 archives and will soon be hitting the 8th.  (Average archive is approximately 10 printed pages).

For this reason I have chosen to offer my defense by making my presentation via web pages that will be easier to deal with than scrolling through thousands of lines of printed matter that can become very confusing because it often is hard to tell who wrote what!


This week the slivers have attempted to discredit the ISSR by misquoting numbers and twisting facts.  For that reason we have spent several days carefully examining, compiling and updating our data in order to make this information easier for everyone to understand.  Nothing has been changed.  Our goals are focused on data clarification only!

First of all, everyone needs to understand that the ISSR has several systems working within the TCCP, focused on various objectives! Plus, we can't discount all of the AKC dogs that were used in setting the foundations for the Shiloh Shepherd!

We are NOT talking about AKC dogs that were born after the 1990 "AKC split" out of parents that were NOT affiliated with the original Shiloh Shepherds kennel--or even dogs that had "Shiloh lines" but did NOT meet the requirements set by the ISSR!

So, when we want to look at "the" numbers -- we need to consider the BIG PICTURE! What "numbers" are we looking at? Where did they come from? What was their purpose? Where do they fit into the picture?


1. Tina Barber started Konigin Kennels in 1962.  Her mentors had taught her how to keep excellent "breeder records" and she continued to compile data on the litters born at the kennels she worked for, as well as those that she helped whelp for other well known breeders in that era.  Since she was often commissioned  to train/show some of these pups as they matured, she started to keep detailed records regarding their "strong points" at 7-8 weeks versus attributes that they retained as adults.

This is just something that ALL good "old time" breeders used to do, and true REB's still do today!

Over time Tina also "picked up" other data, like hip strength at maturity, etc., that she never even planned on documenting--until she started experiencing the horrors of CHD in her own breeding program.  (Please see What Are We Breeding For?)

2.  In 1974 Tina chose to change her kennel name to Shiloh Shepherds, and to use her incredibly large inheritance to experiment in producing the ULTIMATE SHEPHERD.

Her first focus turned to what she had already learned from the dozens of litters she had had and those of other breeders that she had had personal experience with.  She started putting together a "data spread sheet" that would eventually be called the LMX program. In 1978 she moved to a farm in Gainesville where she proceeded to produce an average of 25 litters per year for the next 12 years in order to enable her to select the best (cream of the crop) for her future foundation dogs.

Before we look at the numbers, let's take a moment to consider that...

If she had an average of 25 litters per year, average of 8 pups per litter, it would equal 200 pups per year x 12 years for 2,400 pups. 

But what about the pups she produced prior to the BIG MOVE?

From 1962-1978 the estimates run close to 300 litters.  This would add another 2,304 pups. 

And what about all of the "satellites" she had during the '80's? Amongst them all, they produced another 12-20 litters per year as well. So, taking an average of 15 litters x 10 years, that's an additional 150 litters x 8 pups for another 1200 dogs. 

To recap, if we add these all up, we end up with a grand total of 5,904 puppies!

Location Litters per year   Number of pups   Number of Years   Total Pups
Gainesville (1978-1990) 25 x 8 x 12 = 2400
Hilton (1962-1978) 18 x 8 x 16 = 2304
Satellite Kennels (80's) 15 x 8 x 10 = 1200

Please keep in mind, we haven't even entered the "rare breed" world yet! This data was collected by Tina via her personal experiences within her breeding program! The only place that has a record of this data is the TCCP! The rest is still locked up in her brain, and has only been shared privately with her partner and future heir--her daughter!

Now, let's look at this information from another perspective. If each dog can be bred between 1 (males) and 2 (females) years of age, how many generations can be produced over a period of 28 years? 14 generations?

Don't forget--we are still dealing with pre 1990 data!

When I left the AKC, I clearly published that I had from 7-14 generations of FULLY DOCUMENTED LMX DATA in my private files. This was never a secret, and in fact was the basis (springboard) I used to launch the "new breed"!!

As can be seen in this Newsletter written in 1984, Tina already had 5 FULL generations of documented LMX data, and 97% of the pups she was producing DID NOT have CHD!


Fourteen generations on any dog equals 32,766 ancestors.

Since I chose Kari and Ursa as my key ingredients, that alone amounted to thousands of dogs (if we eliminate the imports and adjust the numbers due to the inbreeding).  I also used Ria and Sabrina, two lines that I had less data on.  Nevertheless, the data that I did have on those dogs, and their ancestors, has to be included in the total "numbers" because they still make a great impact on this breed!

3. In 1990 I opened up my dogs to the "rare breed" world and entered with 321 specially selected breeding quality Shiloh Shepherds.  Many of these dogs had at least 9 generations of recorded LMX data. Some had 14 generations worth. None had less than 5 generations. Since I cannot provide the exact numbers, suffice it to say that if we estimate that 70% of these dogs were line-bred (having the same ancestors) that still leaves us with at least 96 dogs x 9 generations (1022) for a total of 98,112 dogs.

If we calculate a low estimate of only 5 generations of such data (although as previously stated most had 7-9 generations) the low estimate [321 dogs x 5 generations (62 dogs)] would total 19,902 dogs.  If we conservatively subtract 30% of these dogs due to the duplication resulting from line-breeding, we still have a total of 13,931 dogs.

Tina's 1984 Christmas newsletter clearly shows that she already had 5 FULL generations of documented data on her dogs in the early '80's.

If she managed to have that many dogs documented, it should not be hard to understand that she certainly should have had at least close to 4 more by the 90's.


So, I'd have to guess that my personal Shiloh Shepherd data falls somewhere between those two extremes (13,931 to 98,112).

Please  show me any breeder that can stand up and provide this kind of data on the dogs he/she has been breeding!

Between 1990 and 1993, during the 3 year transition, many litters were "dual registered" with the AKC because of the FIC failure. During that time I kept my breeders books as before, and "ISSR" papers were issued via the club (see the sample from the Origins book), but those dogs are not included in the "official" TCCP reports since they were the original foundation dogs, and not "born" exclusively within the ISSR! However, the LMX data on those dogs has always been maintained in the same fashion as all of the former AKC dogs were!

When we look at charts like ISSR Puppies Per Year we have to take this fact into account.

We had more than one litter born in 1990! Just look at dogs like Captain, Sasq, etc.  These dogs were certainly born, but they had AKC papers.

For more recent data (through 2008), please view our updated ISSR Charts.

For example: If you look at the puppies born chart, it looks like only 12 puppies were born in 1990 and only 30 or so born in 1991.  However, if you look at the litters born in 1991 and 1992, the numbers don't seem to make sense.  This is easy to explain; even though we had numerous litters born (please keep in mind that most litters consist of 7-10 pups, even though we have followed the GSD protocol and use the acceptable "8" as the average for Shilohs too), many of the owners chose to retain their AKC papers. Accordingly, these adults are not listed in the TCCP database, and, therefore, do not show up in the reports.

Nonetheless, if you look at the charts showing the number of litters born per year, they clearly show that at least 14 litters were recorded (because they came from my private records, although several were produced via co-ownerships). This would certainly prove that at least 112 pups were born into the ISSR, not just "12" as the puppies born per year chart seems to indicate.

In reality, 1990-93 were extremely productive for the Shiloh Shepherd! Just look at the shows these dogs attended during that transition! They were packed....

Nearly 1000 pups were born during that initial time of transition! Unfortunately many chose to remain with the AKC and were never allowed to make an impact on our gene pool!

Now, let's try to move forward, since that is the data that the TCCP has been documenting since 1993!

4. In the fall of '93 The Complete Computer Place (TCCP) signed a contract with the ISSR and proceeded to input all of the old data from my private records, as well as to continue documenting all future Shiloh Shepherd data, and to provide reports as needed.

We have always  openly shared our reports with anyone that wanted to visit our websites! We have nothing to hide - Beware of those that do!

However, you must keep in mind that the GTF data reports only count Adult dogs, because we cannot collect genetic disease data such as hip reports on young puppies!

Furthermore, we have to focus on dogs that have been upgraded because dogs that still have their puppy papers cannot provide us with the data for which we are looking!

So if  I write a letter to our members that states that we have "100" dogs that qualify, but only "20" have submitted their GTF survey information, that does not mean that the ISSR only "registered"  100 dogs that year! How ridiculous!

Please review the process:

A. A litter is born, but the pups are not registered until they are between 40 and 70 days of age. Why? Because we need to document the sex, coats, color, chip number, etc on each pup. http://www.shilohshepherds.info/issr.htm

B. This is where we lose some "pet owners" that never bother to send in their papers at all, just like with the AKC.  Only we have set a time limit and once it expires, the pups are placed in another file as "expired".

C. Those that are sent in with a "new name" and new owner information will receive a temporary pink certificate that also includes a full 4 generation pedigree and they will retain those papers until they apply for their permanent certificates.

These papers also have a time limit of 36 months.  If that pup is not upgraded before his/her papers expire, they too will be placed into another file. That does not mean that these dogs don't exist. They just don't show up in the active data reports!

However, the GTF has continued to encourage owners to supply us with data on their dogs, even if their papers expired. And for this reason, we have provided these people with an online survey.  

When data comes in, it is verified, and even if the dog's papers had expired, this information is documented.  In cases of CHD, we could receive data on an older (expired) pet that developed a problem, and even though they are not listed in our "numbers" reports, the information is included in the final GTF data reports. Thus this could even screw our percentages enough to "appear" worse than they should.

For example, if 100 dogs were born, but only 50 ever got their final papers, it would appear that this represented our entire gene pool, so if 10 dogs reported CHD, instead of showing up as 10%, it would show up as 20%. That's why the GTF merges its verifiable data (that includes both active and expired Shilohs) in order to get a much clearer picture of the genetic diseases that could be floating around within/through our gene poolT

Nevertheless, we encourage everyone to provide us with full documentation so that we can produce the best possible Shiloh Shepherds for all future generations to enjoy, even if it means that we have to sit back and watch the slivers exploiting our data in a negative way.

As long as the public can "see" the truth and appreciate what we are trying to do for these dogs--that's all that matters.

For further study, please take a moment to read Real Questions Honest Answers from the Shiloh shepherd Breed Founder.

In conclusion, the Shiloh Shepherd (still under development) "breed" has been based on LMX data. Without it, they are just AKC GSD's or unpapered mixes.

The ISSR has nearly 5 decades of documented LMX data going back to the '60's.

The TCCP has documented data on over 4000 dogs born within the ISSR (even though some have expired and these numbers will fluctuate--as expired dogs are moved, new ones enter!).

As of January 2006, the ISSR (with the help of the TCCP) has documented LMX data on over 4000  genuine Shiloh Shepherd dogs registered within the ISSR plus over 45,000 in the LMX/GTF database and access to over 200,000 GSD ancestors that are listed in our RC database.  Although some of these dogs' ancestors were also listed in pedigree databases, available via the Internet, these services only provide names, not LMX data.

The Dominants and Recessives, as well as LMX data that has been compiled via the TCCP has never been revealed via any printed stud book/alpha listings and is only available to the LB's who order extended pedigrees on dogs they own/plan to breed to!

It has taken me a lifetime to compile this data, and it will be used to breed the best dogs that the ISSR breeders can produce. If any one not affiliated with the ISSR claims to have access to this data, they are lying to you!

Those people can't even produce full LMI or PER reports on their breeding stock! Don't believe the political hype they spew forth!


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